Lawmakers in the Assembly passed a bill on Monday night approving $2 billion in property tax credits that could lower homeowners’ tax bills up to 20%. But some Republicans are calling the tax reform unconstitutional. The bill is due for a Senate vote on Monday. From The Jersey Journal:
Democrats are on the verge of giving a 20 percent property tax cut to most New Jersey homeowners, but Republicans yesterday questioned whether it violates the state constitution because it would base relief from the nation’s highest property taxes on income.
Assembly Republicans hinted they might file a lawsuit against the plan if it’s signed into law. The plan would give relief ranging from 10 to 20 percent to households who earn up to $250,000.
“The state constitution requires that all homeowners be treated equally under the property tax laws,” said Assemblyman Richard Merkt, R-Morris.
The Republican tax cut plan calls for amending the state constitution to guarantee the cut comes annually and giving a 30 percent cut for all households earning up to $200,000 and a 20 percent cut for all other households.
The Star Ledger reported “Governor Jon Corzine suggested homeowners are likely to see rising tax bills again next year, even with enactment of the reform measures.”
So just what does it all mean? Here’s a look at what you get and what you don’t.
Hooray for the Assembly Republicans. Equal treatment for all.
corzine sucks.
“Corzine suggested homeowners are likely to see rising tax bills again next year”
What a JOKE..Don’t they get it??? WE DON”T WANT TO PAY, never mind get 10-20% back.
How can people in Pa, Delaware and Maryland pay 1/3 the taxes that we do and not suffer???
Their kids get into great colleges..they use the same text books..yet they don’t have broken backs from taxes!
“Democrats are on the verge of giving a 20 percent property tax cut to most New Jersey homeowners”
“”The state constitution requires that all homeowners be treated equally under the property tax laws”
DOA
I regret voting for Corzine SOOO MUCH! Unless he gets his act together, in his next election I will gladly vote Republican for the first time I can remember.
This “property tax relief” is nothing but income transfer and as a lifelong Democrat I would support the Republican’s constitutional challenge.
Corzine has totally wimped out on cutting spending, standing up to the special interests, etc. State pensions for part-time employees, double-dipping, etc… he wimped out and showed he hasn’t the backbone to do any real cost control.
Would have been better off with Cody, if Corzine hadn’t bought his way into office!
“I regret voting for Corzine SOOO MUCH! Unless he gets his act together, in his next election I will gladly vote Republican for the first time I can remember”
way to go honey. tell two friends
And they are going to pay for it HOW!?
This is just another one shot gimmick that kicks the can of accountability down the road past the next legislative elections. In that respect, the Democratics have taken a page from W’s playbook by slashing tax rates to endear themselves to their key constituencies while leaving someone else to pick up the tab when the bill comes due.
I am bitterly disgusted, but by no means surprised, with the pathetic outcome of all this.
They should all be throughly ashamed of themselves, but of course they won’t be, because politicians in this state immunized themselves from that perception generations ago.
From Corzine with his union-pandering rally appearances and pull-the-rug-out-from-under-them edict to address pensions and benefits only in collective bargaining, to the legislature who have shown what ball-less wonders they are by caving in to everybody from the public employee unions to the Hudson County pols, they have have truly become a contemptable lot.
Really. You all suck! Except perhaps for Senators Leonard Lance and Joe Kyrillos, they all have blood on their hands.
I am beyond bitter.
ugh.
“And they are going to pay for it HOW!”
The same way you do looser.
CUT
well, apparently, we’ve heard from the 1% of NJ households that make more than $250,000. What about the other 99% of NJ households that WANT property tax relief without breaking the backs of middle and working class households.
It’s perhaps not so ironic that the “lower taxes at any cost” conservatives would now criticize a tax relief plan.
11 years till my last kid graduates from high school. then see ya montclair, see ya essex county, see ya new jersey.
They paid for it by raising the sales tax rate, and also applying it more broadly. It’s not just an extra 1% tax rate: for the first time many services are subject to sales tax, thanks to the “bearded wonder” in Trenton.
It is a wonder he ever made Chairman at Goldman Sachs!
Why can’t they just take less money from us in the first place?!!?!
This reminds me of the logic we often hear when it comes to wasteful projects and spending: “But it was paid for with a grant from the State”. (In other words, we the taxpayers!)
We have to stop giving them money to burn in the first place! This is not advanced Economics! If you have $100, don’t spend $1000! Grrr!
“It’s perhaps not so ironic that the “lower taxes at any cost” conservatives would now criticize a tax relief plan.”
Todd, Why on earth should people making less than 250k be allowed a tax break and those over 250k denied? Its flat out discrimination any way you slice it. Its a pathetic way to redistribute income. If this goes through I hope more high wage earnings leave nj.
How can people in Pa, Delaware and Maryland pay 1/3 the taxes that we do and not suffer???
Because at least in Maryland’s case, with a population slightly less than ours, they have less than half the number of school districts and local government entities than we have. More schools and governent services are consolidated and delivered at the county level, which eliminates waste and redundancy, and achieves efficiency thru economies of scale.
But everybody here screams bloody murder whenever anybody even suggest that we consider such an an approach in NJ.
Tax relief this way is dead. Corzine knows it he is just paying it lip service, so he can (bite his lip clinton style) and say ” I triiiied” .
Todd – there are plenty of people in Montclair making over $250k/year who are choking on our tax bills just like you.
I think most people in Montclair appreciate the beautiful historic houses in town, but keep in mind taxes are $30,000 to $50,000 on these houses, and going up rapidly. (Maybe they’ll double again in 6 to 8 years). That will eventually crush this town.
I am a Democrat and thought the Bush income tax cuts were totally irresponsible. However, on the NJ property tax problem, we ALL should want real solutions, not some pathetic political band-aid.
Corzine’s approach here is the same as Whitman’s deficit financed tax cuts….pandering for votes and avoiding necessary, but difficult choices.
“The plan would give relief ranging from 10 to 20 percent to households who earn up to $250,000.”
Sadly, $250K ain’t much in today’s world. Make it up to $1 million.
—————-
INSERT WORKING CLASS GRIPE BELOW
There should be tax relief for all, typical Democratic BS.
What in the world happened to the discussions about the 4% cap on annual property tax increases? That would force the county, Board of Ed and township to FINALLY cut their excessive spending!!!
It is no rocket science but simple math: council wants the fancy new “x” (insert desired item here, eg wayfinding signs etc), it will cost “y” dollars. Add up all items, divide by tax base (new appraisal values) and voila: arrive at your new and increased property tax bill for this year.
SOLUTION: SPEND LESS. Force the council, the county and the BOE to save. Currently budget negotiations work like this:
Mayor Ed: I wanna buy the new “x”.
Council: OK, $850,000 approved.
Tax assessor: We’ll just divide it up, and all Montclair Homeowners have to open their wallets. He, he. That was easy.
Future:
Mayor Ed: I wanna buy “x”
Council: No, Mr. Mayor…we have to watch out for the 4% cap on property tax increases. Sorry, can’t buy “x”.
Mayor Ed: Well, I think, we can live without “x”.
I really don’t understand how the county, BOE and municipal governments can continue to treat their citizens like ATMs.
Corzines plan with small tax refunds does nothing to fix the underlying problem, that has caused the current property tax crisis in New Jersey.
Sylvia,
“Future” and “Mayor Ed” are oxymorons and so is he.
Democrats, Republicans politicians…. same scumbags, same interests (their own) different name.
Maybe we should all vote independent the next election. These politicians have been neglected by the special interest lobbyists and are more likely to make real changes.
Kay I agree with you. Every project that receives a grant from the state appears to require another 75%+ of the costs to be funded for by the local taxpayers.
NJ is run by bad and corrupt accountants and special interest politicians whos only interest is to stuff their own pockets.
Make the schools statewide accountable for their spendings. Provide the same amount of funding per student to EVERY PUBLIC school in the state. Not 60+% to one school system and 3% to another.
“The state constitution requires that all homeowners be treated equally under the property tax laws,” said Assemblyman Richard Merkt, R-Morris.
So, okay already, I’m bending over….
the political though process in a nutshell:
ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME
MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE
BLA, BLA, BLA
ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME
MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE
False promise and lies.
ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME
MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE
Re Corzine: Don’t want to say I told ya so, but…
Solution for lowering my taxes.
I vote people who have kids, pay for them to go to school. They require additional programs/help, they pay additional money for said kids.
Me, I’ve got a dog.
I would like to see more budget transparency.
Deploying services in a more regional way is an innovation that I think we should explore. Local governments are going to complain because this budget is going to force them change and give up some control. I would certainly like to see service sharing in Bloomfield with surrounding towns. And I don’t care if my local politicians don’t like sharing their toys. Get to it.
I can not understand how we are going to reduce taxes if the dollar we earn today is worth less tomorrow while our salaries and wages stay the same.
As far as looking to Pennsy and Maryland because of their lower taxes, you can not compare our economy, populations, etc.. to them. They are less developed states with flat economies, lower costs of living, and crappy infrastructures. I would think NJ’s economic performance is far better than PA or MD. New Jerseyan’s demand services. Listen to them complain about route 280?
As far as the complaints of the Republicans, they’re going to be sour on everything.
“property tax relief without breaking the backs of middle and working class households.”
Do you actually consider $250,000 rich? Funny, I haven’t exactly been living the Robin Leach lifestyle. Just trying to make enough to stay in town with 2 kids.
Easy for lasermike to say. Hey, laser — do you even pay property taxes?
Considering you have neighbors that are trying to feed families on less than 20,000 — yes, we do think $250,000 is rich. Considering how far above the median household income it is, yes, we think that’s rich. Considering there are people who can stretch that money a LOT further without griping about not having a yacht… yeah, we think that’s rich.
It’s funny how the same people who slam the Corzine rebate are the ones who praised the Bush one from 2001. No, it doesn’t fix the problem, but you people whine about plans for consolidation of services and continue on your provincial way.
Let’s hear some proposals from those living at the $250,000 “poverty” line.
hiding 2:01, I realize you are just trying to stay in town with your kids, and I agree that taxes here are atrocious (though you are actively making a choice to stay here and pay), but please keep in mind that the most recent poverty threshold (2005) for a family of 4 was $19,806/year. You support your family on 12.5 as much money as many people living close to the poverty line do. So yes, I do consider you rich. Working class people deserve to be able to own their homes as much as a “rich” person. What defines each of those people varies depending on who you’re talking to. Myself? I rent in Montclair, since I only make 15% of what you do.
appletony,
Yes, it is costly to own property. Between the mortgage and taxes you are getting squeezed.
I can tell you that renters pay property taxes increases in the form of rent increases which is stipulate in the renters lease.
I leave you with this question: How are you going to maintain you current standard of living if you are earning less each year? If your salary is not increasing with the falling dollar and rising costs, you are losing. And lets not mention your dwindling benefits.
If you expect the free market to give you a fair break, you can forget it.
Couple of things:
1) How does the proposal from the Republicans differ that greatly from the law. If you give everyone under $200,000 30% and everyone over 20% you are still discriminating based on income. A literal interpretation would require thate veryone gets the same tax relief or not at all.
2) Nobody makes people live in a home that you have to pay $30,000 to $50,000. Its a conscious choice by that person including the taxes they have to pay.
3) $250,000 is a lot when you consider the median household income which doesn’t even surpass $100,000, much less reach 250. It may be alot ofr someone based on their living expenses but that may because the living expenses are out of wack with what it probably should reasonably be.
4) The point of this legislation is to keep people who have less disposable income to pay out of their nose in prperty tax from fleeing teh state. Not everyone in New Jersey makes 6 figures and works in NYC. But there are alot of people that do have to live here. NJ is not affordable for those people. This is easing their burden. Its not intended to be total relief for everyone, especially those that don’t need it.
Its not that 250k is rich. Its that 60k is poor. … relatively speaking.
“2) Nobody makes people live in a home that you have to pay $30,000 to $50,000. Its a conscious choice by that person including the taxes they have to pay.”
4) “The point of this legislation is to keep people who have less disposable income to pay out of their nose in prperty tax from fleeing teh state. Not everyone in New Jersey makes 6 figures and works in NYC. But there are alot of people that do have to live here. ”
HUH! typical liberal double talk. Can’t have it ways. Time to move to newark.
Why is it that I don’t feel poor? You guys really need to get your priorities straight if you think 250k isn’t enough.
Who’s talking poverty level. I’m just astonished that making over (slightly) $200,000 in Montclair (and being a homeowner) is considered rich.
$200,000 in Nebraska maybe, but in Montclair?
“Do you actually consider $250,000 rich? Funny, I haven’t exactly been living the Robin Leach lifestyle. Just trying to make enough to stay in town with 2 kids.”
Uh, yeah, I think $250K might not be Donald Trump Rich, but I’s a lot more than many of your neighbors are making supporting a family of 4. You statement sounds rediculous, you make it sound like it’s a struggle to support 2 kids on $250K. Most people could do that supporting 3 times as many people. There’s a lot of people on here crying about what Corozine is doing, but until spending slows, there’s not much that can be done. This is a start, not a solution, but a start. This board is nothing but a bunch of phucking crybabies; do us all a favor and don’t vote come next election.
I can tell you that renters pay property taxes increases in the form of rent increases which is stipulate in the renters lease.
You can tell me that, but my only rental experience is in NY, where property tax adjustments are only part of commercial “triple net” leases, not residential (that’s why residential leases hardly ever extend beyond a 2 yr term in NY).
Anyway, you could have saved a lot of words by saying, “no, I do not pay property taxes and the free market values me, lasermike026, at less and less each year.” You’re always happy to pick others’ pockets through your approach to government.
Appletony, as a landlord, I can tell you quite confidently that increases in my property taxes are most assuredly passed on to my tenant in the form of a rent increase when the lease is renewed annually.
Why should those who have worked hard and earn in excess of $250,000 be penalized by not getting the same benefits that someone making less will receive? This is a capitalistic society we live in. I am not here to support you bloggers who waste their life complaining about parking meter increases. Don’t feel sorry for yourself for making $60k, work harder and make things happen for yourself. There is no reason for anyone in this area to be below the poverty line barring some physical ailment. There is plenty of work in this area.
The property tax problem is caused by the fact that Governor Whitman cut school funding. For example, in Glen Ridge, the state was paying 47% of the school budget. Today it pays 4%.
That’s right, the state of New Jersey pays less than 500 dollars a year to educate a child in Glen Ridge.
If the state simply paid its fair share of education in this area, there would be no property tax problem, Our taxes would be 25 to 40% lower, the burden of educating children would be spread across the state, and the problem, that the government created, is solved.
Appletony, as a landlord, I can tell you quite confidently that increases in my property taxes are most assuredly passed on to my tenant in the form of a rent increase when the lease is renewed annually.
Gee, Fred, thanks for that. I was addressing lasermike’s idea that the leases stipulated property tax increases. Like any other seller or lessor of something, you have every right to try to pass along your cost increases. At some point, you can’t do so and the market goes down.
appletony, i own.
appletony, i own
Mazel tov! So you are simply advocating that you are special and deserve my property tax money to subsidize your property taxes because the free market values your services less than mine?
If you have any savings at all, you are more “rich” than me, as I have a negative net worth (it shouldn’t stay that way for too long, but I had to invest in building a career and educating my kids), but you support policies that force me to pay higher income and now property taxes. Thanks for nothing.
Wow, I would just like to respond to the comment (from “CapitalismRules”)that people making 60k need to “work harder and make things happen for yourself.” I certainly wish things were so simple.. but there are people out there with extremely high levels of education and motivation who spend their entire lives working in fields that will never ever pay 250k. And not for a lack of hard work. I can only speak from personal experience, I work in medical research in developing countries.. not to be rude but please remember that we work hard even if we’re not on Wall Street. Hard work does not always equal more money in fields like science, health, etc. I like Montclair (at least what I know of it) for its lack of pretension.. so I hope that your sentiment isn’t widely shared.
“Why should those who have worked hard and earn in excess of $250,000 be penalized by not getting the same benefits that someone making less will receive? This is a capitalistic society we live in. I am not here to support you bloggers who waste their life complaining about parking meter increases. Don’t feel sorry for yourself for making $60k, work harder and make things happen for yourself. There is no reason for anyone in this area to be below the poverty line barring some physical ailment. There is plenty of work in this area.”
So people that don’t make upwards of $250,000 aren’t working hard? thats a slap in the face of alot of people. Not everyone has the capacity to, or puts that at the top of their priorities. There are plenty of people that work hard for what they make and it can be $60,000 or less. Its not about being able to live luxuriously but at the same time they don’t want to be squeezed out of living decently either. If you live in Llewellyn Park, you don’t need that break as much as nearly alot of other people do.
My wife and I are looking for places to buy right now. Its not easy. We are both young, educated professionals with no kids and some money towards a down payment saved up. We make a decent income together but things are out of control. Just to get a two bedroom townhouse costs around $400,000 (and thats on the low end) in most places that doesn’t include property taxes and home owners insurance. I don’t think that we should have to look at East Orange or Irvington to find something relotely affordable. In no other place in the country, would you have to pay that much for a small townhouse or condo. And there are alot of people in worse circumstances than us at this point, plus they have kids to raise.
“You work three jobs? √¢‚Ǩ¬¶ Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that.” √¢‚Ǩ‚Äùto a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb.
In no other place in the country, would you have to pay that much for a small townhouse or condo.
Residents in many parts of New York, the L.A. area, Chicagoland, Boston area, San Francisco, San Diego, Washington D.C. suburbs and other spots would beg to differ with you!
Right stoptb!
However, don’t kid yourself about Montclair. It’s just dripping with pretention.
As you may know, Ethel & I have no children. Yet, I pay constantly increasing property taxes to educate the children of you, wealthy homeowner. So I’m also investing in educating your kids. Since that frees up some capital for you, I’m also helping you “invest” in your career.
Seems to me I might be experiencing some inequities under this system.
Thanks for nothing.
“11 years till my last kid graduates from high school. then see ya montclair, see ya essex county, see ya new jersey.”
Posted by: see ya! | January 31, 2007 12:03 PM
Like so many other NYC narcissistic yuppie swine you fell for the Montclair BOE media hype. I always laugh at the likes of you who put up for sale signs as soon as your kids graduate thinking how you are making out like the fat rats you are, leaving the rest of us suckers to support your newly suckered buyers. What you fail or refuse to face is the reality that Montclair HS is a shuck and jive show and your kids are launched into the world for the rest of their deluded lives semi literate at best with deficits that can never be made up since developmental readiness is critical to learning as well as being brainwashed into liberal lameness like laserdope! HA HA HA!
Hoisted on your own reproductive avaricious petard!!!!
I appreciate all the attention, but my point is, what right does anyone who makes under $250k a year have over a person that makes over that amount? This is America, we all have the right to make as much money as we can and should not be penalized or have to support others who say that we have enough money. Sure, many jobs are very important that just don’t pay that well and that is your choice to pursue those jobs. But if you are going to have those jobs and complain about it, then do something about it.
Nobody is forced to live here, you can go 20 miles west of south and get a much more affordable town to live in.
no bush economy rules!
I have always voted against the incumbents at every election good or bad. It is poisonous to let them run any show too long. Corzine is an over rich do gooder who thinks that pandering to the unions and teachers in addition to screwing their officers literally is the way to go. RID… remove incumbent douchebags!
you make it sound like it’s a struggle to support 2 kids on $250K
Wow, never said that. Just think $200,000 and $250,000 as cutoffs are arbitrary for deciding if someone is being overtaxed. Based on your logic, maybe the cutoff should be $60K. Assume it was $1k less than you make. Then how hapy would you be. It’s an arbitrary number that takes nothing important into consideration of who is really being hurt by property taxes.
I have always voted against the incumbents at every election good or bad. It is poisonous to let them run any show too long. Corzine is an over rich do gooder who thinks that pandering to the unions and teachers in addition to screwing their officers literally is the way to go. RID… remove incumbent douchebags!
What do we want?
Equality for extremely rich people!!
When do we want it?
By tee-off time, or at the very least, by the time Juanita pours the martinis and serves the little nibbly snacks!!!
Fred, Ethel: The only answer is to raise Ricky and Lucy’s rent. He can afford it — Cuban music is hot again. And, they can get a $50 rebate on their New Jersey taxes against the part of their rent used to pay your property taxes. I would ask them to split that with you, too, if I were you.
The point is not whether or not a family who makes over $250K can afford to pay more property tax. A 20% credit that is subject to an income limit it is a back-door income tax. If you want to tax income, do it directly. Do not hide the income tax in the property tax.
It’s a little bit rediculous to think that a family making $250k could pay $30k a year in property taxes, and then sell the same home to a family that makes $225k per year and have the effective property tax on the property drop $5k to $25K. That amounts to an additional 2% state imposed income tax on the family making $250K (=$5k/$250k). In this scenario, if you figure that NJ state income tax is approximately 6%, this amounts to a 33% increase in state income tax on the family making $250k. BS.
Perfect! Nice post
Fred-
When are you going to fix my heat? It’s cold in here, and I’m trembling.
Look, Mrs. Trumbull, if you weren’t so lazy & shiftless, you could afford your own heat and not look to me to subsidize you. You could have worked past 75, but you chose not to, so now you have to hunker over a can of sterno to warm your withered, arthritic fingers. Don’t blame me.
I would take “theproblem”‘s advice on developmental deficits seriously. Judging from his post, I think he’s speaking from personal experience.
As much as I hate the cut-and-pasters:
NY Gov. Spitzer stands by “steamroller” boast
NEW YORK (Reuters) – New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer was unabashed on Wednesday about declaring himself a “steamroller” and the most accomplished governor in the history of the state after three weeks on the job.
“I am a fucking steamroller and I’ll roll over you or anybody else,” the Democratic governor told Republican Assemblyman James Tedisco in a private conversation last week, the New York Post reported on Wednesday.
“I’ve done more in three weeks than any governor has done in the history of the state,” Spitzer also said, the Post reported.
—————
I wonder if “Streamroller” Spitzer would mind loaning his balls to Jon Corzine for a few days, because Corzine seems to have misplaced his after the election.
Wish I’d written that lyric..
Putting aside all this class warfare for a moment, are you folks saying you actually like Corzine’s rebate idea?
It does nothing to address what everyone agrees is the problem of excess spending that has made NJ the highest property tax state in the country.
Additionally it is totally subject to annual budgetary whims (here today, gone next year).
And, because the property taxes you actually pay keep going up, your home resale value gets pushed down.
Couldn’t we hold out for a real solution? Or is it this easy to buy off the voters?
It’s this easy to buy off voters, unfortunately.
“It’s this easy to buy off voters, unfortunately.”
Liberal voters !
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears that the Democrat’s plan includes a 4% cap on property tax increases. Which the Republicans are bitching about, naturally.
Making it affordable for homeowners to stay in their homes past the time when their children leave the educational system may actually serve to keep property tax increases down by slowing the increase in school populations.
Fred: I don’t put too much credence in that…to quote the article link above:
What you won’t get: The proposed cap comes with exemptions and lets schools and local governments seek state and voter approval to exceed it. Gov. Jon S. Corzine concedes the cap likely won’t immediately hold property tax increases to 4 percent because generous contracts with public workers must expire first and governments will need time to adjust to the cap.
Basically Corzine is changing nothing…I agree with the post above, Corzine needs a balls transplant from Spitzer. Maybe Spitzer will shame Corzine into action.
But it’s a start, no? You can’t hold Corzine responsible for contracts negotiated prior to his term. Contracts are contracts: legally binding instruments between two parties.
I like the idea of a municipality needing to get voter approval to increase taxes beyond the 4% cap. Sort of makes up for the school budget we don’t get to vote on.
What’s your solution?
My solution is to yank Fred Mertz’s pants down and give him the bare-bottomed spanking of his lifetime
I appreciate all the attention, but my point is, what right does anyone who makes under $250k a year have over a person that makes over that amount? This is America, we all have the right to make as much money as we can and should not be penalized or have to support others who say that we have enough money. Sure, many jobs are very important that just don’t pay that well and that is your choice to pursue those jobs. But if you are going to have those jobs and complain about it, then do something about it.
Posted by: CapitalismRules | January 31, 2007 3:52 PM
If everybody works on Wall St, who will pump the gas into your SUV?
Up the Revolution!
“Ahem” a couple of posts up mentioned yachts. Great idea…
Note to self: buy YACHT and live on it. No more property taxes, no more leaf raking, no sewer bill. Perfect!
Most of us here don’t realize that WE are as big a part of the problem. Our thinking is don’t take away anything from me – but other are OK to have it done to them. We want to keep our town gov. – no consolidation for OUR school district 0 others – OK. Just don’t mess with our autonomy – which is the problem statewide. Nobody wants to give up anything. It’s a lose lose situation with US being the problem and the key to the solution.
I assume this would be based on AGI (or more probably NJ Gross Income), not on gross income. Therefore, in the artifical example of the family making $250K given above, I would happily take a consulting fee to tell them to donate $5 to their favorite charity so that they can get property tax relief.
If you look at the PDF at the NJ state web site (nj.gov), you can see that property tax takes a larger percentage of lower income household’s money.
As my consultant, what is bad advice worth? You can’t deduct charitable contributions to your favorite charity on a NJ-1040. This isn’t a federal return!
Hey Mertz, The holes in your cognitive net re your historical knowledge pegs you as a MHS grad. Don’t you know that everytime a cap has been tried in NJ there have been so many weasel holes that they never mean anything? Your thinking reminds me of a mosaic retard.
> As my consultant, what is bad advice worth? You can’t deduct charitable contributions to your favorite charity on a NJ-1040. This isn’t a federal return!
You’re absolutely correct. But someone who knows NJ tax code as well as you apparently do should also have known that you can take a tax deduction for property tax, so the hypothetical family making $250K would have a $30K deduction, therefore putting them under the limit.
This can be played out to ridiculous extremes. Let’s say the same family made $279K. With the $30K deduction, they drop down to $249. So they are then eligible for the drop in the tax to $25K. Which means the next year, their tax goes back to $30K.
So, I concede the point that the arbitrary income limit may not make sense. What do you think about this? Remove all relationship to the family’s income. Base it completely on the property assessment. If the property tax is currently
(tax rate) * (assessed value)
change it to:
(tax rate) * (assessed value – adjustment)
where adjustment is whatever number works – let’s say $50K.
Then, if you live in a $250K house, you end up seeing a 20% decrease. If you live in a $5M house, you see a 1% decrease…
Eh, wrong again consultant! How much do I owe you now?
A hypothetical family making $250,000 with a $30,000 property tax would not have a $30k deduction…it maxes out at $10k (last years).
Please, teach me more about the NJ tax code!
Seriously though, i like your new way of calculating it.
You are right Hiding 7:38 AM. The NJ property tax deduction is capped at $10,000. New idea for Corzine: remove the cap and make the entire property tax amount deductable on our NJ
income tax returns. As it stands now, we have to pay income taxes on every dollar we use to pay our property tax.
And don’t get me started on the unfair federal tax code, where Alternative Minimum Tax kicks in, when you have to pay outrageously high NJ property taxes and nothing is deductible.
“I don’t think that we should have to look at East Orange or Irvington to find something relotely affordable. ”
This is exactly the type of entitlement BS that is flushing this state down the toilet. Face it, Montclair, Glen Ridge et al are expensive communities-but you can’t shell out what the market demands here, so you ask for a handout from the government. 250k IS an above-average income, and will get you a nice house in many other towns here in northern NJ. The argument that the only choice you have is between Montclair/GR and East Orange is pure rubbish. Didn’t someone mention Forest Hill in an earlier thread? If you can get past your fear of anything east of the Bloomfield line, you could find a nice house in what I know to be a good neighborhood. I say down with the stupid rebate shell game anyway. The state could plug the budget deficit if it eliminated that joke alone.
There will be no substantive tax reduction until these towns and school districts start consolidating. We have districts without students, but with paid staff! People like those at the Garden State Coalition of Schools are being totally disingenuous as their towns, like Glen Ridge, are high-income communities anyway, and aren’t the folks REALLY feeling the squeeze-the middle income residents in places like Bloomfield, Belleville, etc.
For as much as I respect Mayor Bergmanson and his candor, towns like Glen Ridge are exactly the reason we have such high prop. taxes. The duplication of services is insane. Wasn’t GR part of Bloomfield originally? And if we can’t merge districts (which seems likely as the NIMBYs have the cash to resist), why not fire services? Some of the small-town companies I’ve seen are better-equipped than big-city departments!
“My solution is to yank Fred Mertz’s pants down and give him the bare-bottomed spanking of his lifetime
Posted by: Uncle Charlie | January 31, 2007 6:03 PM ”
won’t he come back as “Backsore”??